wellyou certainly had no qualms signing into the illegal
box



On Sat, 28 May 2005 07:02:27 -0000
"difficult_run" wrote:
>I stumbled across "Difficult Rock Troll" about two weeks
>ago which
>was found at the Great Falls National Park, near
>Washington, D.C.
>Signed log and replaced as found.
>
>"Difficult Rock Troll"
>http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
>boxnum=12923&boxname=Difficult_Rock_Troll
>
>There is also another letterbox nearby, "Paws for
>Thought"
>http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
>boxnum=12856&boxname=Paws_for_Thought_-_Difficult_Run
>
>Both owners have been contacted to let them know it is
>illegal to
>place letterboxes in National Parks. I've yet to receive
>a response
>from either owner.
>
>These owners need to remove these letterboxes, or I will
>contact a
>GFNP ranger to remove them.
>
>Regards,
>Mitch
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

I was kinda thinking the same thing. Isn't it rather hypocritcal to sign in
and then complain about the box locations? What would Ms. Manners say?

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
dragonfly@norwoodlight.com
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 7:05 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Letterboxes on National Park Property



wellyou certainly had no qualms signing into the illegal
box

I agree..it wasn't good form to sign into an illegal box. But I won't
condemn "Difficult Rock" because letterboxing IS a sickness. An
addict will do ANYTHING to push up that F count! *wink*

Lock Wench


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
>
> wellyou certainly had no qualms signing into the illegal
> box
>
>
>
> On Sat, 28 May 2005 07:02:27 -0000
> "difficult_run" wrote:
> >I stumbled across "Difficult Rock Troll" about two weeks
> >ago which
> >was found at the Great Falls National Park, near
> >Washington, D.C.
> >Signed log and replaced as found.
> >
> >"Difficult Rock Troll"
> >http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
> >boxnum=12923&boxname=Difficult_Rock_Troll
> >
> >There is also another letterbox nearby, "Paws for
> >Thought"
> >http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
> >boxnum=12856&boxname=Paws_for_Thought_-_Difficult_Run
> >
> >Both owners have been contacted to let them know it is
> >illegal to
> >place letterboxes in National Parks. I've yet to receive
> >a response
> >from either owner.
> >
> >These owners need to remove these letterboxes, or I will
> >contact a
> >GFNP ranger to remove them.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Mitch
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

This goes back to the age old question. What harm is it doing? Most of the places I have found letterboxes are places that I would not have thought to go otherwise. As long as it is not harming the environment I don't know why you have to be like that. If you agree with the National Parks then don't place or find boxes there.
Semalee
----- Original Message -----
From: difficult_run
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 2:02 AM
Subject: [LbNA] Letterboxes on National Park Property


I stumbled across "Difficult Rock Troll" about two weeks ago which
was found at the Great Falls National Park, near Washington, D.C.
Signed log and replaced as found.

"Difficult Rock Troll" http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
boxnum=12923&boxname=Difficult_Rock_Troll

There is also another letterbox nearby, "Paws for Thought"
http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
boxnum=12856&boxname=Paws_for_Thought_-_Difficult_Run

Both owners have been contacted to let them know it is illegal to
place letterboxes in National Parks. I've yet to receive a response
from either owner.

These owners need to remove these letterboxes, or I will contact a
GFNP ranger to remove them.

Regards,
Mitch







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am curious as to why you feel it is your responsibility
to contact the NPS? If this boxer is willing to place a
box here, I would think it their decision. Years ago, I
placed a box on NPS property in AZ, long before it was
known to be against policy. Just recently, I was contacted
by a ranger from the park who had confiscated it. He was
quite amiable, even signing into the log before he returned
it to me. Dozens of boxers had signed into it in the
three years plus that it lived in the wild.

I left this box in place even after I learned of Park Service
policy against caches and letterboxes. I had decided that
as long as it was left undiscovered by the powers that be,
it was bringing pleasure to my fellow boxers. I knew that
my hiding place was not in an environmentally sensitive
area and that the box was easy enough to find that no
damage would be done in the search. I also never left
another box on NPS property once I knew the rules but
left this one alone.

If it were me, I would certainly refrain from tattling to the
park service. My ranger was the friendly sort but some
are not. Would you want to expose a fellow boxer, who
provided you with a log to sign, to possible litigation and
large fines? I think your personal email would be sufficient.
Don't hide boxes of your own in National Parks and let the
box owners decide for themselves... Funhog

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "difficult_run" wrote:

> Both owners have been contacted to let them know it is illegal to
> place letterboxes in National Parks. I've yet to receive a response
> from either owner.
>
> These owners need to remove these letterboxes, or I will contact a
> GFNP ranger to remove them.
>
> Regards,
> Mitch

Actually, these people often leave a vitriolic, disapproving note
citing laws and so on. It's a bit boring and tedious, but hey, you
rip that page out and move the box to another hiding spot.

On 5/28/05, Mosey wrote:
> I was kinda thinking the same thing. Isn't it rather hypocritcal to sign in
> and then complain about the box locations? What would Ms. Manners say?
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~

Yes...............I think we know that...........

That doesn't make 'em any less a bypocrit. :-)

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Eibhlin/Aisling
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 8:35 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Letterboxes on National Park Property


Actually, these people often leave a vitriolic, disapproving note
citing laws and so on. It's a bit boring and tedious, but hey, you
rip that page out and move the box to another hiding spot.

Something just desn't seem right about this post. Perhaps it really is just someone trying to stir things up. But:

~ These 2 particular boxes have no clues or info.
~ You signed in? Why?
~This member joined the group YESTERDAY.
~Look at the names of the box ID under the links.

Hmmmmmm MayEve (Not tring to be "difficult"


difficult_run wrote:
I stumbled across "Difficult Rock Troll" about two weeks ago which
was found at the Great Falls National Park, near Washington, D.C.
Signed log and replaced as found.

"Difficult Rock Troll" http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
boxnum=12923&boxname=Difficult_Rock_Troll

There is also another letterbox nearby, "Paws for Thought"
http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
boxnum=12856&boxname=Paws_for_Thought_-_Difficult_Run

Both owners have been contacted to let them know it is illegal to
place letterboxes in National Parks. I've yet to receive a response
from either owner.

These owners need to remove these letterboxes, or I will contact a
GFNP ranger to remove them.

Regards,
Mitch







---------------------------------
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MayEve

z




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am getting clues for both boxes. Perhaps Difficult Run is either new, or just a grumpy old person who has no friends, so tries to make everyone else miserable....

Glad Difficult Run doesn't live near me! I would hate to have the box police checking all of my boxes!!

Semalee
----- Original Message -----
From: MayEve
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Letterboxes on National Park Property


Something just desn't seem right about this post. Perhaps it really is just someone trying to stir things up. But:

~ These 2 particular boxes have no clues or info.
~ You signed in? Why?
~This member joined the group YESTERDAY.
~Look at the names of the box ID under the links.

Hmmmmmm MayEve (Not tring to be "difficult"


difficult_run wrote:
I stumbled across "Difficult Rock Troll" about two weeks ago which
was found at the Great Falls National Park, near Washington, D.C.
Signed log and replaced as found.

"Difficult Rock Troll" http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
boxnum=12923&boxname=Difficult_Rock_Troll

There is also another letterbox nearby, "Paws for Thought"
http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
boxnum=12856&boxname=Paws_for_Thought_-_Difficult_Run

Both owners have been contacted to let them know it is illegal to
place letterboxes in National Parks. I've yet to receive a response
from either owner.

These owners need to remove these letterboxes, or I will contact a
GFNP ranger to remove them.

Regards,
Mitch







---------------------------------
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MayEve

z




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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Noooooooooooo...........guys..........it's a joke. It's gotta be.

Look at the names of the boxes -- Paws for Thought and Troll? And at the
end of the one is "difficult_run" who sent the original message? The
message is on behalf of difficult-run? And the links are typed to go to an
empty form?

I'm computer illiterate, so I could be totally wrong, I usually am, but this
is a joke.

And they're still a hypocrit!!! :-)

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of difficult_run
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 2:02 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Letterboxes on National Park Property


I stumbled across "Difficult Rock Troll" about two weeks ago which
was found at the Great Falls National Park, near Washington, D.C.
Signed log and replaced as found.

"Difficult Rock Troll" http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
boxnum=12923&boxname=Difficult_Rock_Troll

There is also another letterbox nearby, "Paws for Thought"
http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
boxnum=12856&boxname=Paws_for_Thought_-_Difficult_Run

Both owners have been contacted to let them know it is illegal to
place letterboxes in National Parks. I've yet to receive a response
from either owner.

These owners need to remove these letterboxes, or I will contact a
GFNP ranger to remove them.

Regards,
Mitch

Well, joke or not, I put the names in and came up with boxes. Don't
forget, you can't simply click on the link. The names of the boxes are
segmented and need to be pasted into a web browser together.

Fake or real, I wouldn't even threaten to harm someone elses boxes. No
matter what, but that's just me.

Blax

Mosey wrote:

> Noooooooooooo...........guys..........it's a joke. It's gotta be.
>
> Look at the names of the boxes -- Paws for Thought and Troll? And at the
> end of the one is "difficult_run" who sent the original message? The
> message is on behalf of difficult-run? And the links are typed to go
> to an
> empty form?
>
> I'm computer illiterate, so I could be totally wrong, I usually am,
> but this
> is a joke.
>
> And they're still a hypocrit!!! :-)
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of difficult_run
> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 2:02 AM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [LbNA] Letterboxes on National Park Property
>
>
> I stumbled across "Difficult Rock Troll" about two weeks ago which
> was found at the Great Falls National Park, near Washington, D.C.
> Signed log and replaced as found.
>
> "Difficult Rock Troll" http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
> boxnum=12923&boxname=Difficult_Rock_Troll
>
> There is also another letterbox nearby, "Paws for Thought"
> http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
> boxnum=12856&boxname=Paws_for_Thought_-_Difficult_Run
>
> Both owners have been contacted to let them know it is illegal to
> place letterboxes in National Parks. I've yet to receive a response
> from either owner.
>
> These owners need to remove these letterboxes, or I will contact a
> GFNP ranger to remove them.
>
> Regards,
> Mitch
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/letterbox-usa/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service .
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joined yesterday and posted this kind of thing...? He's a troll.

I'll be on the lookout for him at other lists. These people tend to
jump from one list to another, stirring things up for their own
amusement.

Also, I've also had very good experiences working directly with park
rangers. In fact, the only cranky people I've encountered at parks
are those who leave weird notes about how the box is illegal, not
realizing that the park rangers approved, off the record.



On 5/28/05, Mosey wrote:
> Noooooooooooo...........guys..........it's a joke. It's gotta be.

Hello Everyone,

I'm sorry, this is not a joke. I see it as a poor situation for
letterboxing and geocaching. If letterboxers and geocachers don't
play by the rules, we endanger our chances of the NPS allowing the
use of their property in the future.

I'm not threatening anyone's boxes. I'm simply asking these boxes
be moved before the NPS becomes aware of their location. I know
folks are proud of their boxes and the logs are unique &
irreplaceable. Why risk losing your box and a possible fine for
illegal placement??

I've also opened it the topic up for discussion on the Geocaching
website -->
http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=99398

I'm hoping the letterboxing community will step up to the plate and
do the right thing.

Regards,
Mitch

What a jerk!! Please stop posting!! You're
eventually going to hear what everyone is thinking.
You definitely don't want that. So just please go
away. And thanks for the rules update...there
uhh....dopey!!
--- difficult_run wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I'm sorry, this is not a joke. I see it as a poor
> situation for
> letterboxing and geocaching. If letterboxers and
> geocachers don't
> play by the rules, we endanger our chances of the
> NPS allowing the
> use of their property in the future.
>
> I'm not threatening anyone's boxes. I'm simply
> asking these boxes
> be moved before the NPS becomes aware of their
> location. I know
> folks are proud of their boxes and the logs are
> unique &
> irreplaceable. Why risk losing your box and a
> possible fine for
> illegal placement??
>
> I've also opened it the topic up for discussion on
> the Geocaching
> website -->
>
http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=99398
>
> I'm hoping the letterboxing community will step up
> to the plate and
> do the right thing.
>
> Regards,
> Mitch
>
>
>



__________________________________
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I'm looking forward to hearing what everyone thinks. I also have
rather thick skin, so if anyone wants to bash me for doing the right
thing, please be my guest.

http://www.letterboxing.org/faq/faq.html
"Note that it has been reported that it is illegal to place letterboxes
in certain parks, lands, etc., and you could be cited for doing so. In
particular, National Parks in the US are off limits to placing
letterboxes. Don't break the law."

Regards,
Mitch

Is any one sick of this thick skinned moron yet? Is
that some brown stuff on your nose? Do the rangers
let you drive their trucks if you kiss their butts?
Or do you get free admission to the parks? You
parents taught you well. "Everyone loves a tattle
tale." You must have been the kid who was the
non-athlete, computer nerd who got beat up on a daily
basis. How much lunch money was taken from you? Did
you tell on them? Or were you to chicken? What a
winning combo....A loser fink who got beat up in
school , who's parents told him that he was being a
good boy. They felt bad telling you the truth, didn't
they. Well guess what, you should have figured it out
on your own because you are going to pay for it now
there Captain Thick Skin.
--- difficult_run wrote:
> I'm looking forward to hearing what everyone thinks.
> I also have
> rather thick skin, so if anyone wants to bash me for
> doing the right
> thing, please be my guest.
>
> http://www.letterboxing.org/faq/faq.html
> "Note that it has been reported that it is illegal
> to place letterboxes
> in certain parks, lands, etc., and you could be
> cited for doing so. In
> particular, National Parks in the US are off limits
> to placing
> letterboxes. Don't break the law."
>
> Regards,
> Mitch
>
>
>



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Yep, one of the most obvious trolls I've seen in a long time. I
suggest ignoring him now.

On 5/28/05, difficult_run wrote:
> I'm looking forward to hearing what everyone thinks. I also have
> rather thick skin, so if anyone wants to bash me for doing the right
> thing, please be my guest.

OK, guys, that's enough now. Or take it off list. Thanks--Sheba




---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Do you and dificult run know each other?

--- Suzanne Coe wrote:
> OK, guys, that's enough now. Or take it off list.
> Thanks--Sheba
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

BTW, Welcome to the group with your thick head...I mean...skin.


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "difficult_run"
wrote:
> I stumbled across "Difficult Rock Troll" about two weeks ago which
> was found at the Great Falls National Park, near Washington, D.C.
> Signed log and replaced as found.
>
> "Difficult Rock Troll" http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
> boxnum=12923&boxname=Difficult_Rock_Troll
>
> There is also another letterbox nearby, "Paws for Thought"
> http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
> boxnum=12856&boxname=Paws_for_Thought_-_Difficult_Run
>
> Both owners have been contacted to let them know it is illegal to
> place letterboxes in National Parks. I've yet to receive a response
> from either owner.
>
> These owners need to remove these letterboxes, or I will contact a
> GFNP ranger to remove them.
>
> Regards,
> Mitch

>.. The non-athlete, computer nerd

Hey! I resent being compared to Mitch. I'm a proud non-athlete computer
nerd who never ratted on nobody. well maybe my cousin Dexter but I was 9
and he deserved it! I'm going to create box: "Computer Nerds on the
Trail"

Computer Nerds Unite!!!

TT





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No, but I taught school for 7 years & am mom of 3 kids, and it was a knee-jerk reaction. Sorry. PLEASE take it off list?

seth mandeville wrote:Do you and dificult run know each other?

--- Suzanne Coe wrote:
> OK, guys, that's enough now. Or take it off list.
> Thanks--Sheba
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It wasn't meant as a blanket statement. Sorry about
that.

Seth
--- AC wrote:
>
> >.. The non-athlete, computer nerd
>
> Hey! I resent being compared to Mitch. I'm a proud
> non-athlete computer
> nerd who never ratted on nobody. well maybe my
> cousin Dexter but I was 9
> and he deserved it! I'm going to create box:
> "Computer Nerds on the
> Trail"
>
> Computer Nerds Unite!!!
>
> TT
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>



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Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
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i was just thinking "who made you the letterbox police?"

-------Original Message-------

From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, May 28, 2005 7:34:55 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] Letterboxes on National Park Property

I was kinda thinking the same thing. Isn't it rather hypocritcal to sign in
and then complain about the box locations? What would Ms. Manners say?

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
dragonfly@norwoodlight.com
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 7:05 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Letterboxes on National Park Property



wellyou certainly had no qualms signing into the illegal
box







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

well, 'Nancy Drew ' is correct-kudos! I checked the lbna link and the boxes'
pages come up blank. Given that, the names of the boxes are suspicious.
Maybe this is a fed tryin' to stir stuff up and find out about other boxes
on federal land.........or maybe it's April 1?

JOY

-------Original Message-------

From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, May 28, 2005 8:56:07 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Letterboxes on National Park Property

Something just desn't seem right about this post. Perhaps it really is just
someone trying to stir things up. But:

~ These 2 particular boxes have no clues or info.
~ You signed in? Why?
~This member joined the group YESTERDAY.
~Look at the names of the box ID under the links.

Hmmmmmm MayEve (Not tring to be "difficult"


difficult_run wrote:
I stumbled across "Difficult Rock Troll" about two weeks ago which
was found at the Great Falls National Park, near Washington, D.C.
Signed log and replaced as found.

"Difficult Rock Troll" http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
boxnum=12923&boxname=Difficult_Rock_Troll

There is also another letterbox nearby, "Paws for Thought"
http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
boxnum=12856&boxname=Paws_for_Thought_-_Difficult_Run

Both owners have been contacted to let them know it is illegal to
place letterboxes in National Parks. I've yet to receive a response
from either owner.

These owners need to remove these letterboxes, or I will contact a
GFNP ranger to remove them.

Regards,
Mitch







---------------------------------
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
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MayEve

z




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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

ooooh, well, now I feel stupid..........

JOY, who thought she could "just click on the link"

and you are right........if it ain't yours, then it ain't yours- so leave it
alone!



-------Original Message-------

From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, May 28, 2005 9:48:52 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Letterboxes on National Park Property

Well, joke or not, I put the names in and came up with boxes. Don't
forget, you can't simply click on the link. The names of the boxes are
segmented and need to be pasted into a web browser together.

Fake or real, I wouldn't even threaten to harm someone elses boxes. No
matter what, but that's just me.

Blax

Mosey wrote:

> Noooooooooooo...........guys..........it's a joke. It's gotta be.
>
> Look at the names of the boxes -- Paws for Thought and Troll? And at the
> end of the one is "difficult_run" who sent the original message? The
> message is on behalf of difficult-run? And the links are typed to go
> to an
> empty form?
>
> I'm computer illiterate, so I could be totally wrong, I usually am,
> but this
> is a joke.
>
> And they're still a hypocrit!!! :-)
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of difficult_run
> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 2:02 AM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [LbNA] Letterboxes on National Park Property
>
>
> I stumbled across "Difficult Rock Troll" about two weeks ago which
> was found at the Great Falls National Park, near Washington, D.C.
> Signed log and replaced as found.
>
> "Difficult Rock Troll" http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
> boxnum=12923&boxname=Difficult_Rock_Troll
>
> There is also another letterbox nearby, "Paws for Thought"
> http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
> boxnum=12856&boxname=Paws_for_Thought_-_Difficult_Run
>
> Both owners have been contacted to let them know it is illegal to
> place letterboxes in National Parks. I've yet to receive a response
> from either owner.
>
> These owners need to remove these letterboxes, or I will contact a
> GFNP ranger to remove them.
>
> Regards,
> Mitch
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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> letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service .
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

so, is there a hyphen in obsessive compulsive? lol and lighten up!!!

-------Original Message-------

From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, May 28, 2005 11:20:12 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Letterboxes on National Park Property

I'm looking forward to hearing what everyone thinks. I also have
rather thick skin, so if anyone wants to bash me for doing the right
thing, please be my guest.

http://www.letterboxing.org/faq/faq.html
"Note that it has been reported that it is illegal to place letterboxes
in certain parks, lands, etc., and you could be cited for doing so. In
particular, National Parks in the US are off limits to placing
letterboxes. Don't break the law."

Regards,
Mitch





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

is this nerdy enuff for ya? I had one of the first Apples outta the garage,
in 1976. I was also kinda poor, being a student, so my first data storage
device was a panasonic cassette tape player. anyone else out there remember
keypunchin' cards?

now, i'm kinda old and ornery, so y'all watch yourself!

JOY

-------Original Message-------

From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, May 28, 2005 11:44:03 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] Letterboxes on National Park Property


>.. The non-athlete, computer nerd

Hey! I resent being compared to Mitch. I'm a proud non-athlete computer
nerd who never ratted on nobody. well maybe my cousin Dexter but I was 9
and he deserved it! I'm going to create box: "Computer Nerds on the
Trail"

Computer Nerds Unite!!!

TT





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Mitch. Thanks for the invitation. Get a life. Betsy Ross

difficult_run wrote:I'm looking forward to hearing what everyone thinks. I also have
rather thick skin, so if anyone wants to bash me for doing the right
thing, please be my guest.

http://www.letterboxing.org/faq/faq.html
"Note that it has been reported that it is illegal to place letterboxes
in certain parks, lands, etc., and you could be cited for doing so. In
particular, National Parks in the US are off limits to placing
letterboxes. Don't break the law."

Regards,
Mitch




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Ellen M. Rupard
P.O. Box 185
East Woodstock, CT 06244

The information contained herein is confidential and is intended to be disclosed solely to the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this email information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by return email and delete it from your computer system.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I really didn't want to get into this but I checked your link to the
cacher talk list and I agree with the ones who have said that you
have done your duty by contacting the placers.

The boxes could have been placed with permission. You wouldn't
necessarily know that. If they haven't been placed with permission,
do you want to be the one to remove them and possibly be caught with
the "smoking gun" as it were by the park ranger who might be lurking
in the shadows? How will you convince them that you weren't the
placer? Are you gonna pay someone else's fine?

I don't agree with placing on NPS land because we know it's a no-no
and I don't search for boxes on NPS land.

Give it a rest. You've done all you can.

Knit Wit

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "difficult_run"
wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I'm sorry, this is not a joke. I see it as a poor situation for
> letterboxing and geocaching. If letterboxers and geocachers don't
> play by the rules, we endanger our chances of the NPS allowing the
> use of their property in the future.
>
> I'm not threatening anyone's boxes. I'm simply asking these
boxes
> be moved before the NPS becomes aware of their location. I know
> folks are proud of their boxes and the logs are unique &
> irreplaceable. Why risk losing your box and a possible fine for
> illegal placement??
>
> I've also opened it the topic up for discussion on the
Geocaching
> website -->
> http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=99398
>
> I'm hoping the letterboxing community will step up to the plate
and
> do the right thing.
>
> Regards,
> Mitch

Some people turn letterboxers in to the NPS. Some of us were
emotionally abused as children. Some people turned Jews in to the
Nazi's in WWII Germany- it was the 'right' thing to do!

Gillian

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "difficult_run"
wrote:
> I stumbled across "Difficult Rock Troll" about two weeks ago which
> was found at the Great Falls National Park, near Washington, D.C.
> Signed log and replaced as found.
>
> "Difficult Rock Troll" http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
> boxnum=12923&boxname=Difficult_Rock_Troll
>
> There is also another letterbox nearby, "Paws for Thought"
> http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?
> boxnum=12856&boxname=Paws_for_Thought_-_Difficult_Run
>
> Both owners have been contacted to let them know it is illegal to
> place letterboxes in National Parks. I've yet to receive a
response
> from either owner.
>
> These owners need to remove these letterboxes, or I will contact a
> GFNP ranger to remove them.
>
> Regards,
> Mitch

This might not be Usenet, but Godwin anyone? :-)

I don't *think* this is a Quirk's exception.....

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of gerania93
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 8:14 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Letterboxes on National Park Property


Some people turn letterboxers in to the NPS. Some of us were
emotionally abused as children. Some people turned Jews in to the
Nazi's in WWII Germany- it was the 'right' thing to do!

Gillian

Ah geez, Mozey, an intelligent response? What the heck am I supposed
to do with that? Did I lose the argument, kill the thread or do we
discuss Nazi's? Letterboxing Nazi's, of course.

Gillian

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Mosey"
wrote:
> This might not be Usenet, but Godwin anyone? :-)
>
> I don't *think* this is a Quirk's exception.....
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of gerania93
> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 8:14 PM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [LbNA] Re: Letterboxes on National Park Property
>
>
> Some people turn letterboxers in to the NPS. Some of us were
> emotionally abused as children. Some people turned Jews in to the
> Nazi's in WWII Germany- it was the 'right' thing to do!
>
> Gillian

Dear Mitch,

Please do not overreact to either the angry responses you receive,
nor the situation at hand. There is a level of appropriateness to
everything.

Do you stop officers in the street to point out litterers? Please
match the reaction to the harm.

The actual law does not state that letterboxes or geocaches are
illegal. The law says that letterboxes and geocaches must be
approved by the park commander. The few letterboxes I know of that
have been pulled and cited have specifically not cited an anti-
letterboxing law, because there is no such law. They are only able
to cite the law against "abandoned property". In reality there is a
lot of "don't ask don't tell" going on here.

Every once in a while a letterbox is identified and pulled and cited
by an over enthusiastic NPS employee. Most do not go looking when
they see no harm.

Meanwhile, the NPS, like any organization, must protect its property
and its rights from 'potential' abuse. When they are prodded, they
must react. When a letterbox is placed that is damaging sensitive
natural or historic areas it should be removed. Out in ordinary
woods, with no sensitive wildlife or history, it is doing no harm.

A lot of NPS land is historically or environmentally sensitive. But
a lot looks like any woods in someone's back yard. The rule has to
protect the sensitive but be flexible enough to not overreact.

Write the owners and tell them you think it is a bad idea. They may
not even know that it is NPS land. But if the NPS were concerned
about a few boxes and caches, they are perfectly capable of doing
something about them themselves.

Personally, I think it is just plain safer and saner to avoid NPS
property altogether.

Jack

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "difficult_run"
wrote:
> I'm looking forward to hearing what everyone thinks. I also have
> rather thick skin, so if anyone wants to bash me for doing the
right
> thing, please be my guest.
>
> http://www.letterboxing.org/faq/faq.html
> "Note that it has been reported that it is illegal to place
letterboxes
> in certain parks, lands, etc., and you could be cited for doing
so. In
> particular, National Parks in the US are off limits to placing
> letterboxes. Don't break the law."
>
> Regards,
> Mitch

Hi,

I'm in favor of invoking Godwin's, whether or not this was a Quirk.

And yes, Joy, I remember punchcards and tape and, honestly, I was
about to say dS/dt about this thread and hope that we get back to
lighter discussions.

I'm laughing like crazy that there are other unabashed geeks on this list!

Cheerfully,
Ais

PS. If you aren't familiar with Godwin's Law,
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/

Best response here so far.

I can cite at least 5 geocaches on NPS property with permission.

We're from South Carolina and since this nasty legislation came up
we've been doing a LOT of research on various laws. There are a lot
of misconceptions concerning some laws that some think are common
knowledge.

Illegal to be in a cemetery at night? Nope.
Must be a family member to legally visit a cemetery? Nope.
Illegal to place a cache or box on NPS or USF&WS land? Only if it's
not authorized.

Oh, well, the battle rages on.

CR

PS: Maybe the FAQ should be changed to reflect the true nature of
placing boxes on a NPS land? (You can just about forget getting
authorization on USF&WS land unless you can show the box furthers
wildlife conservation somehow.) It would reduce the "FAQ thumpers" a
little.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "jackdrell"
wrote:

> The actual law does not state that letterboxes or geocaches are
> illegal. The law says that letterboxes and geocaches must be
> approved by the park commander. The few letterboxes I know of that
> have been pulled and cited have specifically not cited an anti-
> letterboxing law, because there is no such law. They are only able
> to cite the law against "abandoned property". In reality there is
a
> lot of "don't ask don't tell" going on here.

This is great information to know. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

BTW: I am not sure some realize this "CR" is not the "CR" from Georgia! Just want people to know there are two of us out there!

Cherokee Rose
(CR from Georgia)

Sissy n CR wrote:
Best response here so far.

I can cite at least 5 geocaches on NPS property with permission.

We're from South Carolina and since this nasty legislation came up
we've been doing a LOT of research on various laws. There are a lot
of misconceptions concerning some laws that some think are common
knowledge.

Illegal to be in a cemetery at night? Nope.
Must be a family member to legally visit a cemetery? Nope.
Illegal to place a cache or box on NPS or USF&WS land? Only if it's
not authorized.

Oh, well, the battle rages on.

CR

PS: Maybe the FAQ should be changed to reflect the true nature of
placing boxes on a NPS land? (You can just about forget getting
authorization on USF&WS land unless you can show the box furthers
wildlife conservation somehow.) It would reduce the "FAQ thumpers" a
little.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "jackdrell"
wrote:

> The actual law does not state that letterboxes or geocaches are
> illegal. The law says that letterboxes and geocaches must be
> approved by the park commander. The few letterboxes I know of that
> have been pulled and cited have specifically not cited an anti-
> letterboxing law, because there is no such law. They are only able
> to cite the law against "abandoned property". In reality there is
a
> lot of "don't ask don't tell" going on here.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sissy & JackDrell,

Thank you both for your input. I'm glad someone has posted a
rational argument.

I disagree with you on the legality of being in a cemetery at night.
It depends on which state and county you are in. For example Virgina
Code states:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-125
18.2-125. Trespass at night upon any cemetery.

If any person, without the consent of the owner, proprietor or
custodian, go or enter in the nighttime, upon the premises, property,
driveways or walks of any cemetery, either public or private, for any
purpose other than to visit the burial lot or grave of some member of
his family, he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

(Code 1950, 18.1-181; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15.)

So this leaves us with the one good question:
Are letterboxes permitted on NPS property or not?? I've heard a
couple of weak arguments that some have been permitted, it's up to
the local superintendant, they don't hurt anything so leave them be,
etc & etc. Nothing concrete.

Can someone find the law or policy regarding this? Please cite your
sources. I'd like to clarify this.

Thanks,
Mitch

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Sissy n CR" wrote:
> Best response here so far.
>
> I can cite at least 5 geocaches on NPS property with permission.
>
> We're from South Carolina and since this nasty legislation came up
> we've been doing a LOT of research on various laws. There are a
lot
> of misconceptions concerning some laws that some think are common
> knowledge.
>
> Illegal to be in a cemetery at night? Nope.
> Must be a family member to legally visit a cemetery? Nope.
> Illegal to place a cache or box on NPS or USF&WS land? Only if
it's
> not authorized.
>
> Oh, well, the battle rages on.
>
> CR
>
> PS: Maybe the FAQ should be changed to reflect the true nature of
> placing boxes on a NPS land? (You can just about forget getting
> authorization on USF&WS land unless you can show the box furthers
> wildlife conservation somehow.) It would reduce the "FAQ thumpers"
a
> little.
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "jackdrell"
> wrote:
>
> > The actual law does not state that letterboxes or geocaches are
> > illegal. The law says that letterboxes and geocaches must be
> > approved by the park commander. The few letterboxes I know of
that
> > have been pulled and cited have specifically not cited an anti-
> > letterboxing law, because there is no such law. They are only
able
> > to cite the law against "abandoned property". In reality there
is
> a
> > lot of "don't ask don't tell" going on here.

I've always felt this was a pretty good article on the issue. I would
assume that the stance taken with letterboxes would be the same taken with
geocaches. It comes from the NPS Office of Policy and demonstrates how
things aren't quite always black & white.

http://geocachingpolicy.info/Documents/USCAVENNPSGeocachingPolicyStatement.h
tml

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of difficult_run
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:09 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Letterboxes on National Park Property

..................So this leaves us with the one good question:
Are letterboxes permitted on NPS property or not?? I've heard a
couple of weak arguments that some have been permitted, it's up to
the local superintendant, they don't hurt anything so leave them be,
etc & etc. Nothing concrete.

Can someone find the law or policy regarding this? Please cite your
sources. I'd like to clarify this.

Thanks,
Mitch

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "difficult_run"
wrote:
> Sissy & JackDrell,
>
> Thank you both for your input. I'm glad someone has posted a
> rational argument.
>
Mitch,
Since you did not respond to my point contained in post #51047,and
could not give me a rational argument, I redirect you back to that
post. Discussion regarding placement of letterboxes on NPS property
is moot. The Placer has control over the clues,Letterbox and editing
of clues. You should check archives concerning this discussion prior
to bringing this subject up again as it has been visited and
revisited many times. Actually ANY letterbox placed could be
considered trash unless approval for it's placement is received, and
that would make placing most letterboxes a violation of the law.
You started this thread by indicating that you were planing on
contacting NPS authorities, but instead brought the subject up again
here and brought it up at the geocache list as well. I tend to go
along with what most geocachers have told you "Mind your own
business". Rarely do I agree with the geocaching community, but in
this instance I agree with them completely.
If you do wish to insert your nose into some other person's business
please do so, rather than belaboring it and continuing this thread.
I think we are all aware that NPS doesn't want placement of
letterboxes on "our" land that they control, so if you are looking
for some pat on the back for bringing this to our attention, I
believe you will be disappointed. As stated before EACH letterboxer
has full responsibility for their letterboxes, and they have the
liability for that placement.

Don

How about you just stick to the laws in England.
Remember what happened a little over 200 years ago (we
did win, didn't we?)....we make our own laws now and
really don't need you to interpret them for us. You
deal with Parliament ,where your opinion matters. Let
us deal with the NPS. They enforce the laws that WE,
as Americans, put into action. Maybe you should worry
a little more about things that apply to you. For
example, a national dental plan for England would be a
good place to start and then maybe you could work on
the whole "driving on the wrong side of the road"
issue. Apparently you've got nothing better to do
than try to help US understand OUR laws. Like we need
the help from a red coat.

Thank you,
Seth


--- difficult_run wrote:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-125
> 18.2-125. Trespass at night upon any cemetery.
>
> If any person, without the consent of the owner,
> proprietor or
> custodian, go or enter in the nighttime, upon the
> premises, property,
> driveways or walks of any cemetery, either public or
> private, for any
> purpose other than to visit the burial lot or grave
> of some member of
> his family, he shall be guilty of a Class 4
> misdemeanor.
>




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Well, apparently I'm not as geeky as I thought, or maybe I'm jus' ol' school
cus I got no idea as to what is "Godwin's" , "Quirk", and ds/dt.........
anybody out there speak 1950's English and can translate for me?

laughin' at myself,

JOY

-------Original Message-------

From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 29, 2005 6:37:37 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Letterboxes on National Park Property

Hi,

I'm in favor of invoking Godwin's, whether or not this was a Quirk.

And yes, Joy, I remember punchcards and tape and, honestly, I was
about to say dS/dt about this thread and hope that we get back to
lighter discussions.

I'm laughing like crazy that there are other unabashed geeks on this list!

Cheerfully,
Ais

PS. If you aren't familiar with Godwin's Law,
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joy's personal encyclopedia :)

Godwin's Law: Godwin's law (also Godwin's rule of Nazi analogies) is an
adage in Internet culture that was originated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The
law states that: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a
comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.
There is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison
is made, the thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has
automatically lost whatever argument was in progress.

Quirk's exception: Intentional invocation of this so-called "Nazi Clause" is
ineffectual.

Thanks!!

-------Original Message-------

From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, May 30, 2005 3:22:08 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Letterboxes on National Park Property

Joy's personal encyclopedia :)

Godwin's Law: Godwin's law (also Godwin's rule of Nazi analogies) is an
adage in Internet culture that was originated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The
law states that: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a
comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.
There is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison
is made, the thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has
automatically lost whatever argument was in progress.

Quirk's exception: Intentional invocation of this so-called "Nazi Clause" is

ineffectual.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

fyi. The casual visitor to Difficult Run would not know that they
are on NPS property. The nearest parking lot is operated by a local
park, not the NPS. From there you walk onto NPS property with no
obvious signage indicating the boundary. The placers probably have
no idea they placed on NPS land.

One of the boxes is very primitive. The placer has not placed any
other boxes. They probably tried out the hobby and have moved on.
You will probably never hear from them.

The other probably does not check their e-mail often. I assume it
is not very well hidden because you found it accidently. A well
hidden box is not accidently found. (Except maybe by geocachers.
They turn over every rock because they don't have clear directions.)

Neither appear to be in sensitive areas or doing any harm.

Personally, before I make someone else's business my business (which
I do on occasion) I first ask myself, "Are they doing harm that
warrants me inserting myself into the situation?"


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "difficult_run"
wrote:
> Sissy & JackDrell,
>
> Thank you both for your input. I'm glad someone has posted a
> rational argument.
>
> I disagree with you on the legality of being in a cemetery at
night.
> It depends on which state and county you are in. For example
Virgina
> Code states:
>
> http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-125
> 18.2-125. Trespass at night upon any cemetery.
>
> If any person, without the consent of the owner, proprietor or
> custodian, go or enter in the nighttime, upon the premises,
property,
> driveways or walks of any cemetery, either public or private, for
any
> purpose other than to visit the burial lot or grave of some member
of
> his family, he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.
>
> (Code 1950, 18.1-181; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15.)
>
> So this leaves us with the one good question:
> Are letterboxes permitted on NPS property or not?? I've heard a
> couple of weak arguments that some have been permitted, it's up to
> the local superintendant, they don't hurt anything so leave them
be,
> etc & etc. Nothing concrete.
>
> Can someone find the law or policy regarding this? Please cite
your
> sources. I'd like to clarify this.
>
> Thanks,
> Mitch
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Sissy n CR" wrote:
> > Best response here so far.
> >
> > I can cite at least 5 geocaches on NPS property with permission.
> >
> > We're from South Carolina and since this nasty legislation came
up
> > we've been doing a LOT of research on various laws. There are a
> lot
> > of misconceptions concerning some laws that some think are
common
> > knowledge.
> >
> > Illegal to be in a cemetery at night? Nope.
> > Must be a family member to legally visit a cemetery? Nope.
> > Illegal to place a cache or box on NPS or USF&WS land? Only if
> it's
> > not authorized.
> >
> > Oh, well, the battle rages on.
> >
> > CR
> >
> > PS: Maybe the FAQ should be changed to reflect the true nature
of
> > placing boxes on a NPS land? (You can just about forget getting
> > authorization on USF&WS land unless you can show the box
furthers
> > wildlife conservation somehow.) It would reduce the "FAQ
thumpers"
> a
> > little.
> >
> > --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "jackdrell"

> > wrote:
> >
> > > The actual law does not state that letterboxes or geocaches
are
> > > illegal. The law says that letterboxes and geocaches must be
> > > approved by the park commander. The few letterboxes I know of
> that
> > > have been pulled and cited have specifically not cited an anti-
> > > letterboxing law, because there is no such law. They are only
> able
> > > to cite the law against "abandoned property". In reality
there
> is
> > a
> > > lot of "don't ask don't tell" going on here.

The Nazis have been mentioned. The thread is over.

Randy
List Manager

Greetings to all,

Just received a response from the owner of the Letterbox at Great
Falls National Park. The owner has graciously offered to move the box
and retire the listing for it, as they were not aware that the box
was located on NPS property. I applaud their decision.

There is a second box nearby on NPS property, but due to the
responses I've received on this subject, the best course of action
would be to allow this thread to close and take no further action.

Letterboxing and Geocaching are under fire in South Carolina at this
time. The right thing to do now is to put our best foot forward and
shine a positive light on our combined hobbies. Hopefully, geocaching
and letterboxing may permitted on NPS land sometime in the future.

I want to thank EVERYONE for their opinions, whether or not I agree
with them. I've carefully weighed each response that was received on
this thread, and it appears to be a delicate subject for most people.
I'd also like to take this opportunity to apologize if I've offended
anyone.

Happy Hunting,
- Mitch -

> Letterboxing and Geocaching are under fire in South Carolina at this
> time. The right thing to do now is to put our best foot forward and
> shine a positive light on our combined hobbies.

*hehe* You know, sometimes putting your best foot forward also means
hiding the "other foot" that may not be quite so shiny under a rug. ;o)

-- Ryan

Hey, look! My shoe is dirty!

Oh, Ryan, you don't have to hide your foot, just blame it on the kids! works
for me everytime! :-) And, of course, you are welcome to borrow the JOY
Prinicple: Better to beg forgiveness than ask permission.

JOY

-------Original Message-------

From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 1:17:04 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Letterboxes on National Park Property

> Letterboxing and Geocaching are under fire in South Carolina at this
> time. The right thing to do now is to put our best foot forward and
> shine a positive light on our combined hobbies.

*hehe* You know, sometimes putting your best foot forward also means
hiding the "other foot" that may not be quite so shiny under a rug. ;o)

-- Ryan

Hey, look! My shoe is dirty!





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dearest Mosey,

Her Ladyship is so sorry for her untimely reply to your query. Her
Ladyship was off on holiday for the weekend and only just returned.
What to say, indeed? Quite a lot of fuss wouldn't you say? One
certainly can't fault someone for taking the morally correct path.
Laws are there for the common good after all. There is an epidemic of
moral relativism in this culture. Remember that Justice is blind and
failure to apply the law equally and without regard to subjective
factors or situational ethics will destroy your legitimacy and right
to govern and enforce the law. To that end, her Ladyship has sent Mr.
Run's e-mail confession to the appropriate authorities in the NPS and
informed them that he admits he was the last person to have these
letterboxes in his possession and that he admits placing these boxes
on NPS property in knowing violation of the law which he himself
subsequently quoted. Clearly a scofflaw, an example must be made of
this man. He found this object, took possession of it then with full
knowledge of the laws to the contrary placed it on NPS land, only to
later admit so publicly. Her Ladyship is not sure how his convoluted
logic works in the real world but can now rest assured that she has
not compromised her morally superior position and that the authorities
who are charged with enforcing the laws will do their duty.

LP


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Mosey"
wrote:
What would Ms. Manners say?
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "kihnu" wrote:
>
> The Nazis have been mentioned. The thread is over.
>
> Randy
> List Manager

Ummm. I brought that up. Sorry, really. I'm not asking to be pardoned,
but I will say something by way of explanation. My Mom was a young
teenager in England during WWII. She has many colorful stories of that
perion in her life. The N word does crop up from time to time in our
family. I will not bring it up here again.

Gillian

My Ladyship,

Devilish idea... I certainly like the way you think!

You're right, of course. I shouldn't have implied this is the case
everywhere. In SC, the law states that if you enter an enclosed area
between the hours of 6pm and 6am, etc. It's not specific to
cemeteries, but certainly includes them if they have a fence and gate.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "difficult_run"
wrote:
> Sissy & JackDrell,
>

> I disagree with you on the legality of being in a cemetery at night.
> It depends on which state and county you are in.

Don
Thanks for bringing my attention to these interesting emails. =-)
A-Bear
Star, Idaho
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "gwendontoo"
wrote:
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "difficult_run"
> wrote:
> > Sissy & JackDrell,
> >
> > Thank you both for your input. I'm glad someone has posted a
> > rational argument.
> >
> Mitch,
> Since you did not respond to my point contained in post #51047,and
> could not give me a rational argument, I redirect you back to that
> post. Discussion regarding placement of letterboxes on NPS property
> is moot. The Placer has control over the clues,Letterbox and
editing
> of clues. You should check archives concerning this discussion
prior
> to bringing this subject up again as it has been visited and
> revisited many times. Actually ANY letterbox placed could be
> considered trash unless approval for it's placement is received,
and
> that would make placing most letterboxes a violation of the law.
> You started this thread by indicating that you were planing on
> contacting NPS authorities, but instead brought the subject up
again
> here and brought it up at the geocache list as well. I tend to go
> along with what most geocachers have told you "Mind your own
> business". Rarely do I agree with the geocaching community, but in
> this instance I agree with them completely.
> If you do wish to insert your nose into some other person's
business
> please do so, rather than belaboring it and continuing this thread.
> I think we are all aware that NPS doesn't want placement of
> letterboxes on "our" land that they control, so if you are looking
> for some pat on the back for bringing this to our attention, I
> believe you will be disappointed. As stated before EACH letterboxer
> has full responsibility for their letterboxes, and they have the
> liability for that placement.
>
> Don